Wader ID help please

[Suzi]

Hi there,

Visited Manukapua (Big Sand Island) on the Kaipara Harbour today with a group of parents and kids. We had an enjoyable time with a big flock of about (!) 3000 BT Godwits and Knots, a smaller flock separate flock of about 600 SIPO and small groups of Wrybill (3), Turnstone (28), NZ Dotts (9) and Banded Dotts (2). There were also Caspian Terns (32) and WF Terns (40+), SBBG (18) and RBG (10+). It was quite windy (sou-west) and partly cloudy to sunny.

In the area with Turnstones, NZD, Wrybill and Banded Dotts, was this little ?Sandpiper. It was mostly sitting near a single Turnstone and when sitting appeared to have quite a white rump. It has a short black bill and black legs. It appeared smaller than the Turnstone, but longer legs. My best guess from looking at the field guide, is a White-rumped Sandpiper, but I see it is a rare Arctic vagrant, so it seems unlikely. Could it be a Red-necked Stint (non-breeding plumage) or a Sanderling (though looked longer legged than both in the FG picture) ? Or other suggestions ? It seems too grey on the wings to be any of the other sandpipers illustrated, (eg Terek or common) but I'm definitely not able to distinguish sandpipers in the field yet (!). Help !

Suzi

[Suzi]

Here's the photo - I hope !? It's a bit small and distant as we didn't want to spook the bird and only had 300mm lens.

I also can't get a decent sized image to load....

[Suzi]

About a third of the mixed BT Godwit and Knot flock out on Manukapua today ...

[GarySetterfield]

Hi Suzi,
From experience White-rumped sandpiper has a rather short-legged, long-bodied appearance with the primaries projecting way beyond the tail giving the bird a rather unique appearance (unlike in this photo) The only other smallish wader with a white rump is curlew sand but this birds bill is way too short plus it looks much darker than you would expect to see from a juvenile or winter plumaged bird and not quite 'elegant' enough. Unless you saw it in flight and can be certain it had an all white rump i think you should discount it as sitting waders can often show a varying amount of white from the rump region.
I myself am no wader expert but from the photo i'm guessing it's probably a smudgy juvenile red-necked stint although i could be wrong as i have very little experience with this species and maybe some of the better ID experts will prove me wrong and we can both learn something new.
Gary

[Suzi]

Thanks Gary. Here's a couple more (terrible!) photos that may provide more clues.

The first is just to show the size comparison to the Turnstone and the white rump showing.

The second is a front on head-shot showing the bill a bit better. I've upped the contrast and saturation to try and get the bird to stand out a bit more, but it's not helping much. It was just too far away.

Jan Walker suggests Curlew Sands, but queries bill length ...
Alan Shaw suggests Sanderling from dark patch on bend of wing at rest, and says: "Although Sanderling do not have a white rump, the white patches at the sides of the tail are quite large and could easily give the impression of a white rump. Another feature of Sanderling is the very grey/black/white appearance when in winter plumage. Most other small sandpipers have brown tones, even in winter."

That's quite convincing, but any changes in opinion from these extra pix ?
Thanks, Suzi


Suzi

[philbattley]

Hi Suzi,

It's not a Sanderling, Curlew Sand, Terek, Common etc. I wouldn't like to say what is is, based solely on those photos. Was the apparent white rump judged just from these photos, or did you see it in flight? It's probably in moult and may be showing parts of its plumage we don't normally see (or even have a loose feather turned upwards, thus showing its paler underside).

It doesn't look much like a classic stint to me, with that grey wash around the breast. There's no reason why White-rumped should be discounted just because it is a vagrant. But if it is one, we'll want some better photos. I've never seen one to offer any insights, and all my books are packed up in boxes. It's certainly worth another look, though it might yet turn out to be a red-necked stint looking slightly odd.

Cheers, Phil

[Suzi]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for those comments.

This photo below is the bird in flight. Only just noticed that it has a patch of rusty red on the nape of the neck. Maybe that indicates that it is a Red-necked Stint in an intermediate phase plumage ?

Very tempted to nip back and see if it is still there, but don't have time except maybe Tuesday evening. (Off to Ausi). Will check the tides.

Suzi

[Rewi]

Suzi
You're right in what you said: these pics are such bad definition that they don't help, and
maybe it's because you've had to reduce the quality in order to make them small enough files
to be accepted onto BirdingNZ.net
Please may I suggest that you first CROP them down to just the bird, then re-post them.
That way you'll still scrape in with the minimum file size
without having to drop the quality, and it will be ALL bird and no background,
so the detail on the bird itself will be much sharper. I'd be most interested to see the result.

As for the bird itself, I've seen lots of White Rumped Sandpipers, and it doesn't look like any of
the ones I've seen. The stance and character are different to anything I've experienced and the
mantle/wing pattern/colour is just way too dense. The bird looks too chunky, and there's something
not right about the head/face pattern.

I wonder if this could be some obscure East Asian/Western Pacific Wader? What does a Spoon-Billed
Sandpiper look like in intermediate plumage? If not,then it's about right for a Red-Necked, except for
the all white rump.

Let's see the tweaked-up photos Suzi.

Rewi

[Brent Stephenson]

I agree with Phil, it's not a Sanderling, Curlew Sand, Terek, Common etc. nor is it a spoon-billed sand. At first glance it just doesn't look right for a red-necked stint to me, but then again identification of waders from single photos can be tricky. The more I look at the photo to be honest the more I keep coming back to red-necked stint. However, the size and jizz seem strange, and I would have expected it to appear much smaller beside a turnstone if it was a stint. In general it does seem too bulky. Do you have any other images for size comparison?

I have seen white-rumped sand (a few years ago now) and have popped a couple of photos below. As Phil says just because they are very rare vagrants doesn't mean it isn't one! Even for white-rumped sand though the rump is VERY white. From the first picture you have posted Suzi it seems to show some moult occuring in the wing coverts (they look patchy?), although in the flight shot the flight feathers appear intact. I do wonder whether it is just a red-necked stint that is moulting and has lost the dark central rump feathers? I've also popped a couple of red-necked stint photos here for reference.

White-rumped sand

bstephenson_wrsand-1.jpg (73.21 KiB) Viewed 268 times

bstephenson_wrsand-2.jpg (90.38 KiB) Viewed 268 times

Red-necked stint

bstephenson_rnstint-1.jpg (89.41 KiB) Viewed 268 times

bstephenson_rnstint-2.jpg (87.37 KiB) Viewed 268 times

bstephenson_rnstint-3.jpg (64.73 KiB) Viewed 268 times

bstephenson_rnstint-4.jpg (60.29 KiB) Viewed 268 times

It is an interesting bird and would be nice to see a few more pics.
Cheers,

[GarySetterfield]

Hi Suzi,
The new photos you've posted have changed my mind. It clearly shoes a distinct white rump so that must rule out RN stint and also as brent says it actually looks far too bulky to be a stint or a peep as the yanks call them ( his photos clearly emphasise this ) stints are generally rather delicate looking birds unlike this rather 'hard' looking individual.
I still do not believe it is a white-rumped sandpiper, again as i said in my first posting white-rumps have an elongated appearance (as seen in brents pics) as opposed to this fellas quite upright stance, it just looks TOTALLY wrong.

I'm now going to make a big call and suggest we should be thinking about some of the 'old world' sandpipers, particularly Wood Sandpiper. The rather striking supercillium,obvious white rump, greyish appearance, bill length, primary projection etc lend themselves heavily towards this bird but the leg colour and' jizz' worry me a bit. I'm getting stumped and if you have them, some clearer photos could possibly help big time.
Gary