Falcon Encounter

Bird sighting information. Use this forum to report bird sightings (especially rare and unusual birds), census and field count results, and trip reports. Messages posted to this forum will also be sent as a plain text email to the BIRDING-NZ newsgroup.
User avatar
boneywhitefoot
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:49 pm
Location: Upper Hutt
Contact:

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby boneywhitefoot » Fri May 18, 2018 10:29 pm

zarkov you have not actually dealt with any of the content of the articles.
just saying they echoes is meaningless unless you can refute what is in the articles.
Im not wasting anyone's time if they dont give me their time.
Your wasting your time though.
Boney Whitefoot Photography
https://boneywhitefoot.wordpress.com/
User avatar
zarkov
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Torbay.

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby zarkov » Fri May 18, 2018 10:57 pm

There's a school of thought that says you should respect people's religious beliefs.

I don't subscribe to that anymore, that just validates them.

Galileo would have recognized you.
User avatar
kengeorge
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:38 pm
Location: Golden Bay

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby kengeorge » Sat May 19, 2018 9:47 am

This is completely and totally unscientific, but here's a couple of shots I took of the in-house wedgie at Healesville a few weeks ago, imagine this guy without the feathers, much shorter wings/forelimbs, and teeth and he'd sure as hell look like something straight out of Jurrassic Park to me......
P1010507a.jpg
P1010507a.jpg (770.75 KiB) Viewed 412 times
P1010505a.jpg
P1010505a.jpg (641.68 KiB) Viewed 412 times
P1010503a.jpg
P1010503a.jpg (426.58 KiB) Viewed 412 times
User avatar
David Riddell
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:46 pm

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby David Riddell » Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 am

I know I should leave this alone, but I've been interested in creationism longer than I've been interested in birds, so this stuff is catnip for me.
boneywhitefoot wrote:here is something to consider regarding feathers, not that you will but Im posting it anyway for those willing to consider the information provided
...
https://creation.com/feathery-flight-of-fancy
...
https://creation.com/dinos-breathed-like-birds

Regarding Sinosauropteryx, there was a lot of debate about the precise nature of its filamentous structures in the years following their discovery, with some claiming they were proto-feathers, others claiming collagen fibres. This is standard science at work. Since the initial report (in 1997) the weight of evidence has come down on the proto-feather side, and the collagen hypothesis has been discounted. Wikipedia has a good summary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinosauro ... _filaments

As for the theropod respiratory system, I was aware of Carl Wieland's article already via this response - http://www.evolutionpages.com/bird_lung.htm. Wieland's claim that intermediate stages between a bellows and a flow-through system are impossible doesn't make sense (see above link), and again, more recent work has only strengthened the case for bird-like flow-through ventilation, and weakened the alternative notion of the crocodile-style "liver-pump" system mentioned by Wieland. For really detailed coverage of this topic, see https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... 2/ar.20989

I once attended one of Wieland's presentations BTW, and had an interesting discussion with him about creationist epistemology. He's obviously a highly intelligent, thoughtful guy, but like all creationists he measures the truth of everything by how well it accords with Genesis - see article D(6) of Creation Ministries International's Doctrines and Beliefs (Wieland was Managing Director of CMI):
Facts are always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information. By definition, therefore, no interpretation of facts in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record

The trouble is, creationists are also "fallible people who do not possess all information". They believe Genesis is infallible, but they could be wrong about that. So you can't take the literal truth of Genesis as a given; it has to be tested against the evidence. And when you do that, it fails the test.
Last edited by David Riddell on Sat May 19, 2018 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
boneywhitefoot
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:49 pm
Location: Upper Hutt
Contact:

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby boneywhitefoot » Sat May 19, 2018 10:46 am

none of us have all the information David.
what was supposed to be a bit of fun about your age turned EVOLVED into something else lol.

I look at DNA and it blows me away. I doubt we will ever fully understand it .
we now know that even folded the dna reads across the folds.
that's like 4-dimensional cross type reading.
we cant even get binary language sorted lol
Boney Whitefoot Photography
https://boneywhitefoot.wordpress.com/
Jim_j
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby Jim_j » Sat May 19, 2018 4:39 pm

Oh dear - here I was picking back up the thread expecting some nuggets on terrestrial Falcon behaviour and instead its "my religion is better than your religion"!
No wonder we're so far along the path to destruction - selfish, silly monkeys! - if only dolphins & whales had evolved hands....

cheers
Jim
fras444
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby fras444 » Sat May 19, 2018 7:55 pm

Read my message Jim by fras444
Jim_j
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby Jim_j » Sat May 19, 2018 10:42 pm

Cheers thanks - yes I did miss that!
Yes I guess there was an empty niche for a ground hunting day predator so the NZ falcon adapted to fill the gap.
Very interesting to the observation from BWfoot re ground hunting for skinks!!
As other have mentioned various other birds of prey hunt on the ground but I always associate falcons as aerial predators.

I believe the Laughing Owl was also a ground predator so obviously a good strategy,

cheers
jim
User avatar
boneywhitefoot
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:49 pm
Location: Upper Hutt
Contact:

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby boneywhitefoot » Sun May 20, 2018 1:28 pm

What is to say Falcons have not always hunted on the ground?
After all skinks would be easy prey.
Boney Whitefoot Photography
https://boneywhitefoot.wordpress.com/
Jim_j
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: Falcon Encounter

Postby Jim_j » Sun May 20, 2018 6:41 pm

Yes I can certainly imagine a falcon swooping down to take one of those large Otago or Grand Skinks sun basking on some rocky outcrop - but actively hunting in the grass seems a harder way to get a meal?
One day when I've got some spare time I'll see if I can find any reference to other falcon species hunting in this way.

cheers
jim

Return to “Bird Sightings and Alerts”