Are there photos of Red-billed x Black-billed Gull hybrids?

[Finn Davey]

I haven't managed to come across any images online of hybrids but I have found a Te papa page that states that they have a specimen in their collection.

I was wondering if anybody had any photos of hybrids or knows what direction to point me in.

Thanks

[Colin Miskelly]

Gurr, L. 1967. Interbreeding of Larus novaehollandiae scopulinus and Larus bulleri in the wild in New Zealand. Ibis 109: 552-555.

[fras444]

I will see if I have time, I will have a look when I go to Rotorua on Friday.

Rotorua being the oddity with one of the few confined/condensed Red-billed/Black-billed colonies where they all breed in one massive colony behind the Polynesian spa pools, if not one of the only inland places, then it must have to be one of the few places where all three species breed within the same vicinity. It was also, in such a small condensed place... It was (being that I lived there for 21 years but now only go there to visit family) common to see what I would assume (at the time) as hybrids so it will be interesting if I see them

I would never pick out the hybrid birds at the colony but I would usually see them around March/April when the breeding season was all but over and the birds dispersing...
I would see many hybrids especially around Hannahs bay near the airport or the other side of the lake at Hamurana with the odd one at the lakefront but there were some definite/pacific hotspots for the hybrids being Hannahs bay and Hamurana springs when I was living in Rotorua.

For hybrids it was usually the case of the Red-billed being the predominate feature with, darker feet and that very distinct Black-billed wingtip... (for me, I know straight away if it's a Red-billed or Black-billed even in the Juveniles... To me the Black-billed wingtips apart from the coloring seem to be more pointed almost tern like than what to me is a more heavy and rounded look that the Red-billed wing tips have... not sure if its that thin black edging that gives it that appearance but the Black-billed all round has a very tern like/slight appearance even when it comes to full mid flight, the tail and the legs seem more tucked in everything seems just so tight, neatly tucked in and narrow than the Red-billed)

But for the hybrids it was usually the red-billed with the pointed wingtips and that slight Black-billed build, but more black on the tips than the Black-billed/less black than a Red-billed. It was, for the most part, instead of the two or three white dots on the Red-billed it would be basically one big white dot with the black being thick around the edges with a very thin border around the white dot.
It was very rare but there was the odd birds with a Black-billed and the red-billed wing tips but once again it was in-between being a red-billed/black-billed wingtip..

Just to add that these birds weren't juvenile's as some may say that they might have been juveniles.
All of these birds were adults in the form that they were usually doing that unmistakable gull like aggressive pairing display and these birds were unmistakably in adult plumage with bright colorings especially in the red bill or the very rare black bill and the legs and the white plumage

[andrewcrossland]

Another place where all 3 species breed is the Ashburton Rivermouth in mid Canterbury, and at colonies around CHCH city, but no inter-breeding noted.

[RussCannings]

But for the hybrids it was usually the red-billed with the pointed wingtips and that slight Black-billed build, but more black on the tips than the Black-billed/less black than a Red-billed. It was, for the most part, instead of the two or three white dots on the Red-billed it would be basically one big white dot with the black being thick around the edges with a very thin border around the white dot.
It was very rare but there was the odd birds with a Black-billed and the red-billed wing tips but once again it was in-between being a red-billed/black-billed wingtip..

Just to add that these birds weren't juvenile's as some may say that they might have been juveniles.
All of these birds were adults in the form that they were usually doing that unmistakable gull like aggressive pairing display and these birds were unmistakably in adult plumage with bright colorings especially in the red bill or the very rare black bill and the legs and the white plumage

Thanks for these notes Fraser. So just to double check, was it only the primary structure/pattern and leg colour that you noticed as an intergraded feature? Did you ever note in-between bill structure or colouration?

If they are that frequent, it would be awesome to get a photo collection going, both standing and in flight.

Russ Canning
Morrinsville, NZ

[Clinton9]

I remembered I saw a hybrid Red-billed X Black-billed gull in Thames...

On 11th November 2001, I were sitting and feeding a flock of Red-billed gulls on lawn, south of Karaka River and south-east of Birdwatching Spot birdhide, and north of Thames Paknsave.
I noticed a Tasmansian Silver gull (larus novaehollandiae gunni) against mostly Red-billed gulls (larus novaehollandiae scopulinus) and I fed meat to the hybrid gull who was paired with a Red-billed gull (larus novaehollandiae scopulinus), luckily it stayed long (3:00pm to 4:37pm) for me to study its wing pattern and color of bare parts. There were no Black-billed gulls (larus bulleri).
Its wings have mirrors on primaries 9th and 10th, but what missing is primaries 8th have black confined to a streak near tip, on outer web.
Its beak were reddish-black, tipped dark red, red orbital ring, white eye iris and dark red legs.
I realized it was not a Tasmanian Silver gull, but a hybrid Red-billed X Black-billed gull.
I took my camera out of my bag, to photograph the hybrid gull, but it flew away southward over Thames Paknsave, with its partner Red-billed gull, at 4:37pm, so I felt sad to have no photos. Luckily I still have drawings in my red studybook about moults of NZ gulls and other native birds.

Hybrid Red-billed X Black-billed gulls are very rare birds and I never seen other ones since 11th November 2001.

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[Clinton9]

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[Clinton9]

Unfortunately during last 14 years of using this website, there are nobody in NZ willing to send me photos of hybrid Red-billed X Black-billed gulls, as hybrid gulls are very rare, because Red-billed gulls and Black-billed gulls have different patterns on wings and bare part colors.

[Finn Davey]

Hey Clinton9

I just have a few concerns regarding the validity of your information.

Subspecies such as ssp. gunni are not currently accepted by checklists such as Clements or IOC world bird list.
Only ssp.s novaehollandiae, scopulinus and forsteri are in use.

I also find your use of the Larus genus interesting, rather than the updated Chroicocephalus.


While I do admire your drawing skills and dedication to studying the specific variations of wing patterns (seriously, very cool and such good work!)
I am always hesitant to use drawings as a form of evidence, as there is always some form of artist's interpretation and certain aspects could be down to slight natural variations and/or mutations in individuals.

Would have been great to snap a pic, but it does seem possible for a hybrid (although could be intermediate between breeding and non-breeding colours).

[Finn Davey]

Would be good to have a firm base to help ID off of.

I am wondering if I could take some photographs of the three specimens in Te Papa's collection?
I have my own gear that would be necessary.

Would anybody know how I could arrange for this to be done?

Could be real handy for some actual photos to start circulating the internet for the help of us and others.