Potential changes to Wrybill Tours "official" checklist

[sav]

Hi all,

This only really applies to those that take part in the friendly competition which is "Birders Totals" on the Wrybill Tours website https://wrybill-tours.com/birders-totals/ but of course anyone is free to comment.

Seven of the Wrybill team (so 7/8 of the whole) had a meeting yesterday evening to discuss various topics, including potential changes to our checklist, which was originally formulated to give a more birder-friendly list than that which was the OSNZ Checklist. We had never agreed with the inclusion of Macquarie Island, nor Norfolk Island, on the NZ List since they are clearly Australian territory, and we thought that there are things that birders (as opposed to ornithologists) would want to count that were not considered worthy by OSNZ.

The OSNZ/Birds NZ Checklist is now a more dynamic beast, which is great. However, we still wish to mirror birders wishes, and so have decided to ask for input from you all as we make some changes. I invite comment - positive and negative - on the proposals below, either on this forum or by email to me:
savATwrybill-tours.com

1. Rose-ringed Parakeet. We propose the addition of Rose-ringed Parakeet in Auckland and the Rotorua area at least. On the basis that free-flying, wild-breeding birds have existed for decades. Whether, or not, they really are a self-sustaining population is debatable, but we can always, easily, change if need be.

2. Ross Dependency. We wish to ask for opinions on whether or not to keep including the Ross Dependency, which you will know is now not included by Birds NZ. We were by no means unanimous last night, but personally I can't see any good reason to keep it (and it will cost me a couple of species since I have been there).

3. Shy Albatross. Do the Aussie breeders warrant a place on our list as a full species separate from White-capped? Only one of the 3 big lists (HBW, eBird and IOC) have this as a full species, and Birds NZ does not. It is obvious that eBird is the most conservative and HBW the least of the three, with IOC in the middle somewhere.
Only HBW recognizes the species, and we think that we should not. (Currently we do).

So, please feel free to join the discussion.

cheers

[RussCannings]

Hi Sav,

While my tally is not in the higher stratosphere of many others on the site, I'll get the ball rolling with the discussion perhaps.

1. If the consensus is happy with this--then I'm fine with it. Having said that, I would want to see some consistency in two related areas. 1) If RRP is 'tickable' in Auckland/Rotorua only, this should be made clear in the rules and similarly, other feral populations should have similar specifications (e.g. Which Cape Barren Geese are okay/not-okay? 2) This also opens the door for other understudied feral populations (e.g. East Cape Emus, Auckland Rainbow Lorikeets, various guineafowl, Muscovy ducks etc.)--if we're okay with RRP without really knowing the ins and outs of their population size/sustainability etc., does this extend to other species like the ones I mentioned?

2. Fine with eliminated Ross Dependency if others are (I'm personally neutral). If we keep it, then why haven't Tokelau or Niue ever been up for consideration? I'm sure the Aussies would happily claim those if they could!

3. For the reasons you outlined, it seems premature to include this taxa as a full species at this time. I don't personally care, but given the current status of ebird and Birds NZ, probably best to await further information (though this potentially means there will be other grey-area taxa to debate like the Stewart Island Shag group etc.)

Russ

[ledzep]

Good discussion:
1. Yes, add the Rose-Ringed Parakeet.
2. I know it is NZ territory but I tend to view it as part of Antarctica, a separate continent. Eliminate it.
3. I follow IOC which has two subspecies of Shy Albatross at the moment, not full species.

[Oscar Thomas]

Are there really enough Rose-ringed Parakeets to justify adding it? I see the odd eBird record of up to 5 birds from Noel Ward in Point Chevalier and a few free flying ones from Hamilton Zoo.
And I think the ambiguity with identifying Shy albatross means it shouldn’t be added for now: https://www.birdsnz.org.nz/publications ... ta-steadi/

[Michael Szabo]

Why not just adopt the official Checklist of the Birds of New Zealand?

It was comprehensively revised earlier this year and Colin Miskelly has said that he now wants to revise it every two years.

[fras444]

I've always found this subject quite fascinating and just how two completely different islands have had two different journeys regarding historical nz bird publications.


Macquarie...
That long slender barron strip of rock... I belive that it has some links to NZ in a geological, geographical, flora and fauna way...
But it has always had a historical link in NZ bird books, going back to the massive green bird book with the white heron, where they include birds of those islands, and for example, the likes of the Macquarie shag and King penguins are listed as endemic/native.
Then you have the current NZ bird book which decided to remove Macquarie Island as part of the New Zealand bird area being part of Australia and describes those birds that are not breeding in NZ territory as vagrants or migrants.

Norfolk...
A bit of a weird one as they have never been part of any NZ bird publications but with such strong links to New Zealand birds through the likes of the Kakariki, morepork and the kaka, you'd think that those historical publications would have chosen the Norfolk Islands over Macquarie Island.

Ross Dependency....
From that Green bird book through to the field guide of NZ birds, birds have always been listed due to New Zealands territorial claims... I've noticed that NZ birds online hasn't included the Ross Dependency, as in, it hasn't listed any birds in that area unless breeding on the sub antarctic islands or recorded as vagrants or migrants in NZ.

I've wondered if geopolitics should make way to geography and flora and fauna links also the "Zelandia" continent, that these Islands should remain or included in future NZ bird publications or in this case, NZ bird counts...

Ross Dependency maybe for the sake of records of breeding colonies, population fluctuations and with climate change, due to NZ territorial claims and it's scientific lead programs in the area, that birds should be continued to be counted as NZ species, particularly, included on NZ birds online


Rose necked parrots..
I feel any exotic bird species should be on the list as observations will form quite vital records of population ranges and for something that could pose a significant ecological impact on our native wildlife, these records, in this case, being part of a bird count, could become quite important in recording the status and spread of a species. And could be quite interesting regarding species like muscovy ducks or turkeys etc...

[RussCannings]

(1) I've wondered if geopolitics should make way to geography and flora and fauna links also the "Zelandia" continent, that these Islands should remain or included in future NZ bird publications or in this case, NZ bird counts...

(2)Ross Dependency maybe for the sake of records of breeding colonies, population fluctuations and with climate change, due to NZ territorial claims and it's scientific lead programs in the area, that birds should be continued to be counted as NZ species, particularly, included on NZ birds online

(3) I feel any exotic bird species should be on the list as observations will form quite vital records of population ranges and for something that could pose a significant ecological impact on our native wildlife, these records, in this case, being part of a bird count, could become quite important in recording the status and spread of a species. And could be quite interesting regarding species like muscovy ducks or turkeys etc...

1/2: On the first and second points above, I think it's worth remembering that the checklist at issue here is one for competitive listing and is (currently) separate from the Birds NZ Checklist and eBird's checklist which both have far more conservation/scientific value. So I agree with your points but feel these latter two lists are more appropriate for addressing geographic/conservation factors. From a listing perspective, precedent and practicality are important factors, so adding New Caledonia all of a sudden (due to its continental relationship with NZ) would seem like a step too far.

3: Ebird/NZ Bird Atlas now accepts any and all exotic species including individual escapees (e.g. Budgies) so this should hopefully satisfy your concern there. Another significant difference between eBird and the Wrybill checklist is that ebird records location/date of bird sightings and therefore helps with knowledge on distribution and trends, whereas someone's lifelist having a parakeet on it provides zero value to ecological knowledge in NZ. Hope that makes sense.

--In other words, I think there is an appropriate place for *multiple* lists in NZ to satisfy the diversity of functions these lists can provide.

Russ

p.s. I encourage everyone to keep track of all exotics and subspecies they come across regardless of their tickability. Why not?

[Steve Wood]

1. Rose ringed Parakeet - Has been around for a long time in some areas so to show some consistency with the other introductions I believe it probably should be listed.
2. Ross Dependency - No problem with removing this region. Not sure why you would include another continent in with NZ. However, I would be interested in hearing any thoughts on why it should remain - personally I can’t think of any. You did say that your companies thoughts weren’t unanimous
3. Tassie Shy - Should be demoted to sub species for all the reasons already stated above. From a birder’s point of view there isn’t much point if we can’t recognise one conclusively anymore on bill colour.
However there is still two accepted records of Tasmanian Shy which were based purely on bill colour. I don’t believe this is consistent with the current ID features accepted but obviously there is some reluctance to revisit this, for a reason unknown to me.

I think Mike makes a good proposal and for me I would prefer 1 up to date current checklist.

[Steve Wood]

Hi Sav and Brent,

Have you made any decision on the “potential changes” to the checklist ?

I could be wrong but when I checked your web page “ birder’s totals” recently, the Ross dependancy wasn’t metioned any more in the inclusive areas.
I was sure it was there previously.
Plus a decision on the other two birds would be good to finalise the end of the year.

Cheers.

[Steve Wood]

For those interested, I have recently heard from Brent on the above proposed adjustments and he plans to finalise this when he is back from a tour.

Brent - Whilst you have your editing hat on I also propose that Gull billed tern (affinis) is a serious contender that needs to be included, now that it is here and is unquestionably a solid example of the recent split (IOC and birdlife International). This current individual surely is an obvious decision for the rare bird committee.

Also, correction? - the Ross Sea is still listed as counted in the Wrybill checklist, it wasn’t mentioned on the first page of describing the geographical boundaries, but is mentioned on the second page.