NZ bird Tickability lists

General birdwatching discussion, help with bird identification, and all other things relating to wild birds and birding in NZ that don't fit in one of the other forums.
Steve Wood
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Re: Guinea fowl, Lake Ellesmere

Postby Steve Wood » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:16 pm

Hi Andrew,
I might be missing something here but, how can you tick "Chicken"? .... it's not even a species !.... they are all crossbred from what I have seen, not pure Rhode Island Reds, or Light Sussex etc.mostly bantam X's - even if they are breeding and self sustaining.
They are in the same camp as hybrid ducks as I see it :D
Last edited by Steve Wood on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
andrewcrossland
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Re: Guinea fowl, Lake Ellesmere

Postby andrewcrossland » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:37 pm

Well there's certainly no Red Jungle Fowl in NZ thats for sure.
Steve Wood
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NZ bird Tickability lists

Postby Steve Wood » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:27 pm

Exactly !
Anyway while on the subject of what's going on your "Canterbury Big year list."

Question - How would you have treated the Oriental Cuckoo if it was on your home patch ? - How do you evaluate this opportunity to see the bird ?

tick able or not ?

There doesn't seem to be any set boundaries/guidelines, (which is kind of a shame I think), in a situation like this in NZ that I'm a ware of.
Everyone's left to do what ever they feel comfortable with.

I would be interested in any ones else's thoughts on this if they wish to share.
andrewcrossland
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Re: Guinea fowl, Lake Ellesmere

Postby andrewcrossland » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Hi Steve, sorry I missed your Q (above). There's been greater minds than mine pondering the question of what is countable and what isn't on a persona list. For me personally, if its a wild vagrant then I think I'd count it when it was living wild and free-flying. So in the case of the recent Oriental Cuckoo, I'd certainly count it if I came across it flying about, or if someone called me up to report one and I went to the spot and saw it. If it were caught by a cat and I saw it prior to being taken into care, such as, for example, being called around to help rescue or recover it - yep I'd count it. Once someone had picked it up, taken it into care or captivity - nah, not countable. Later, if released - and it flies away back into the wild (rather than plopping down to be picked up and taken back into care), yeah, I think I'd count it as long as it was flying away to freedom, to live wild, to continue on its way.
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RussCannings
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Re: Guinea fowl, Lake Ellesmere

Postby RussCannings » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:21 am

I think Steve raises s good point that there is a distinct lack of clarity around life listing rules in NZ (Change the channel if this isn't your cup of tea!). I see no reason why some sort of committee of responsible adults couldn't come up with one to settle it once and for all? Lots of great models out there.
Last edited by RussCannings on Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Wood
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Re: Guinea fowl, Lake Ellesmere

Postby Steve Wood » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:19 am

Hi Russ,
Thanks for your comments, I thought for a moment Andrew had politely evaded the question as it does seem to be a bit of a "hot potato"and potentially, a very personnel one and perhaps some may be a little uncomfortable about putting there cards on the table.
Pleased to have some feed back. It was also open to anyone for their comments so pleased it is back on table so to speak.

Probably deserves a new thread / page ?

It does seem strange that there is no "official" guidelines for the "Twitching game" which so many of us enjoy doing at different levels. As you know It can also be hugely competitive and to me, it would just make sense to clarify this grey area and put everyone on the same page.

As I commented to Andrew above, here in NZ we are in a fairly unique situation where so many of our endemic birds are picked up and put down and shuffled around. So if you were happy to count these surly the O. Cuckoo example is no different? taking into account that it is a vagrant and not in the "self sustaining population category" .

I spoke to a friend in Australia to compare what they would do and apparently they also have huge disputes about ticking released birds.
A couple of examples - Grey headed Albert and Black Petrel were two highlighted, both needed help and then further released.
Grahame
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Re: Guinea fowl, Lake Ellesmere

Postby Grahame » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:42 pm

In answer to the Comment by Russ, the following has come into my possession.

The preparation of a new birder’s ‘New Zealand Master List’ is currently under way, and is anticipated some time in 2019. It aims to correct many of the anomalies of current systems, and introduces more internationally compatible criteria whilst taking into consideration the unique situation here in New Zealand. It will also offer different classes of entry to make a realistically achievable ‘level playing field’ that all New Zealand birders can aspire-to.
Long term errors and omissions will be corrected, and a more responsive and immediate structure, suitable for birder’s needs will be offered. Where possible, changes and updates will be accompanied by full and immediate explanations, backed-up by a historical context.
It is possible that this closer adherence to factual records will result in a small number of notable additions/removals!
However, the system is pitched to be timely, accurate and available to today’s birders, providing up-to-date guidelines. It will in no way be considered as a substitute to the long-term scientific archiving system provided by the osnz checklist, but aims to provide a responsive and accurate platform for use in New Zealand birding.

I would just like to add that I am not involved, but do share Russ's sentiments.

Grahame
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RussCannings
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Re: NZ bird Tickability lists

Postby RussCannings » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:03 pm

Thanks for the update Grahame,

I hope whomever is putting this together consults a variety of twitchy stakeholders before releasing the rules in order to ensure widespread and swift buy-in.
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philbattley
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Re: NZ bird Tickability lists

Postby philbattley » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:13 pm

I had the tickable issue with a Blue Petrel that I released for Wildbase after it had been rehabilitated. I took it up the coast and released it at Patea, watched it wing its way offshore, knowing that if there was a birder out there they'd go "Sweet! Blue Petrel - lifer!". But it's not on my list. :( I also never found a live Broad-billed Prion in 2011, though I saw hundreds in rehab (and the other species too). Again, none of those went on my list...
Phil
andrewcrossland
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Re: NZ bird Tickability lists

Postby andrewcrossland » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:45 pm

firstly, to Phil:

...................respect man, respect.........................

Secondly, to everyone else who may be tempted to ask - this "work in process" tickability rules is news to me too?!

Salam

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