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Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:16 pm
by Clinton9
Here is a photo of Pateke walking after his wife...domestic Mallard duck !

I had seen them and photographed them.

20181006_143237.jpg
Pateke walking after his wife...domestic Mallard duck !, Thames. 6/10/18
20181006_143237.jpg (329.21 KiB) Viewed 1958 times

Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:23 pm
by Jim_j
Understand Ian.
The issue could be though that the Grey Duck is actually functionally extinct as a species!
There are a couple of good articles in recent Notornis re identification and issues that have been mentioned in other posts on this site.
It seems that just because it ticks the features for a Grey Duck doesn't mean it is...

The situation is what it is - I can't see any way to turn back the clock.
Perhaps its time to just say we now have NZ Grey Mallards.

I personally don't have any issue with control of these birds to protect re-establishing Brown Teal if it is an issue - might be a difficult task though - specially as they start to spread?

Interesting Clinton - a male Brown Teal with a female NZ Grey Mallard - presumably the Brown Teal out competed the other Grey/Mallards for her attention - which seems to go against the theory that aggressive male Mallards are responsible fol the inter-breeding?

Cheers
Jim

Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:38 pm
by Clinton9
Pateke's wife is a domestic Mallard duck, not a wild hybrid Mallard X Grey duck (Grey Mallard duck).

Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:51 pm
by Jim Kirker
Good evening Ian,
I'm cautious when it comes to interfering in biological processes with insufficient knowledge of the possible outcomes. I don't doubt that hybridisation of grey duck/pacific black duck with mallards has reduced populations of the former, but I'm uncertain that we have enough evidence to show imminent extinction. That's why I would rather support ongoing monitoring than culling.
I lack the knowledge to comment usefully on the biology, but did find an article that applies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947151/
Notably, the authors conclude that "halting the introduction of hybridization‐prone exotics and restoring mature and diverse habitats that are resistant to hybrid establishment should be management priorities." However, they also note that "hybridization may rescue the viability of small, inbred populations. Understanding the factors that contribute to destructive versus constructive outcomes of hybridization is key to managing conservation concerns."
On a personal level, the ducks I lump as "mallards" when birdwatching are among my favorite birds and I suspect non-birdwatchers with young children would agree. I have seen ducks that tick all the boxes for Grey Duck in a suburban Auckland pond and also, more commonly in the Taupo region, even decades after the mallard introductions, so I suspect there is a stable remnant population.
The hybrid "vigor" I mentioned in previous post is not an opinion based on specialist knowledge - more an emotive defense of the hybrids as survivors in climate associated environmental change, due to their genetic variability.
Best wishes, Jim

Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:43 pm
by Neil Fitzgerald
I photographed patekelards at Waikanae in 2008, as have others.
viewtopic.php?t=2778

Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:16 pm
by Clinton9
I have several Mallard wings, but I only have one Grey duck wing.

Mallard ducks are birds of temperate climate, down to latitude 60 o N, up to Iceland and very rare visitors past latitude 37 o N & S to India and New Caledonia, Spain.

Commonest from latitude 40 o N to 55 o N.

Mallard ducks have very thick plumage, with very heavy dense downy feathers, while Pacific Black ducks & Grey ducks have less thick plumage and less dense downy feathers.

20191028_193451.jpg
Wings: Top: Grey duck Bottom: Mallard duck.
20191028_193451.jpg (317.21 KiB) Viewed 1931 times


20191028_193451.jpg
Wings: Top: Grey duck Bottom: Mallard duck.
20191028_193451.jpg (317.21 KiB) Viewed 1931 times


20191028_193451.jpg
Wings: Top: Grey duck Bottom: Mallard duck.
20191028_193451.jpg (317.21 KiB) Viewed 1931 times


In Mallard ducks"s native countries, they were the nature's hybridist, they hybridized with Green-winged teals to Ruddy Shelducks.

Re: Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:19 pm
by Clinton9
Sorry about three same photos of duck wings, this is due to computer not working.

Mallard x Pateke hybrids

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:17 pm
by Ian McLean
Thanks for posting the pictures of the wings Clinton9, the edged feathers on the base Grey Duck wing are fantastic & an excellent resource for you to have !
Jim Kirker, hybridisation could be a good thing with very small populations e.g. it would likely be a good thing if an Australian Fairy Tern arrived in Northland to breed with a New Zealand Fairy Tern ? The issue with Mallards is that they are hybridizing Grey Ducks to extinction & it is only happening because they were introduced.
Attached are a few additional photos of Mallard x Pateke hybrids.
Cheers
Ian