Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

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RussCannings
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby RussCannings » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:46 pm

Hi Adam,

While I agree that some birds just can't be safely identified under various circumstances, I would respectfully contend that this bird can very much be solidly identified. Hopefully Sean can post the original photos which will help clear things up. To me the first photo is the highest quality and to me the chest is marked up plenty and the bill is relatively straight and seemingly classic knot shape. You do know the third photo is a tattler right?

Cheers,

Russ
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Adam C
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby Adam C » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Arrr! Right...3rd photo is a Tattler. How did I miss that. Phew...I was starting to think you guys were suspect!

All is right with the world ;)

And note to self...Read the posts properly or.... just don't get involved at all lol

But...parting shot...still don't think the first 2 shots are a knot :)
“Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul.”

Samuel Ullman
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RussCannings
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby RussCannings » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:24 pm

Cheers mate,

Not sure if you've had a chance to bird the large knot flocks around the country (e.g. Kaipara, Manukau, Miranda, Farewell Spit etc) where you get flocks of thousands. It is truly remarkable to study the variation in plumages, and even bill/body sizes. Up here, if you're not sure, it's usually a funky knot!
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Adam C
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby Adam C » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:45 pm

Yep seen heaps of knots over the years. It's one of my fav birds. Seems to be the same in stints. Every angle looks different. Again why I think video is a better tool if unsure.

I think it's why this post has got me so interested as the Curlew Sand and the Red Knot are pretty much my 2 fav birds and I have photographed both species a heap. But this bird dosent fit either obviously. Agreed waaay closer to a Knot than a C.Sand but....still don't look right. But I'll let it go.... ;) You guys are prob right.
“Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul.”

Samuel Ullman
Richard Schofield
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby Richard Schofield » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:49 pm

I would tend to agree with Russ's comments. It would be good to see the original photos, as the lack of sharpness in the screenshots could contribute both to the apparent thinness of the bill, and lack of markings on the chest. As Russ says, a good record (if it's a knot) for this part of the country, though one was reported at the same location on 26th October (speaking to the observer this evening probably not the same bird), and one was at the Clutha Mouth on 20th October. However, the last Otago curlew sandpiper record that I am aware of was in 1976! Who knows what slips through the net.
I will be at Cabbage Point tomorrow for the Otago wader count, so hopefully will be able to shed more light on this bird (or muddy the waters further).
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RussCannings
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby RussCannings » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:36 am

Maybe it's a hybrid... :twisted:
Richard Schofield
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby Richard Schofield » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:38 pm

No joy today. Strong winds meant no birds were at Cabbage Point apart from a few banded dotterel, a single pied stilt and 1 turnstone. The godwit flock was at the alternative alternative high tide roost on the opposite side of the estuary, and took a bit of finding. I couldn't get closer than about 150m without swimming, and the strong wind made it difficult just to pick out individual birds; almost anything could have been hiding with them. From the birds' point of view, I wonder why they don't use this roost site all the time, as it is inaccessible to terrestrials at high tide, though from a counter's point of view, I'm glad they don't!
sjacques
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby sjacques » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:45 pm

Thanks for all opinions on this bird. A couple of images attached, not the best quality, but an improvement on the 'back of the camera' shots. Having read around a lot I have learnt plenty about two species that I had considered myself familiar with. At the moment I am tending on the side of lesser knot, albeit a very pale and fine billed individual. A completely different beast from the (basic plumage) birds that I have seen at Awarua bay in recent weeks. As ever, all comments appreciated.


Cheers,
Sean.
CP Sandpiper 2.jpg
CP Sandpiper 2.jpg (75.99 KiB) Viewed 158 times
Cabbage point sandpiper.jpg
Cabbage point sandpiper.jpg (78.17 KiB) Viewed 158 times
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philbattley
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby philbattley » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:58 am

As someone who works with and handles red knots regularly, I can confirm that the bird in question is undoubtedly a red knot.
Regards, Phil
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Adam C
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Re: Curlew Sand, Cabbage Point, Catlins

Postby Adam C » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:29 am

Yeah looking at these two shots now side by side it is way more 'knottish'. It was that Tattler shot that threw my brain into spasms! ;)
“Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul.”

Samuel Ullman

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