Two White Herons in Wellington region

[GrahameNZ]

SomesBirder
Yes that pic above is "another picture of what was probably the same heron as there is at the Hutt estuary"
"before it seemingly left for a few months and then returned."
Cool ...... yet again I don't see the relevance to this topic .......

Hey, do what we as birders should do best.
Go out with an open mind tomorrow and have a look at the big white birds you see.

These dudes do some serious miles, what you see today is not relevant to what you will see tomorrow.
Even rocks don't conform to that rule.

Very nice link Mxyzptlk

Question everything, sometimes things are not what your preconceptions think they are.

So out there folks, is there a yellow kneed bit different bird there ??

[SomesBirder]

GrahameNZ, I do not see why the topic of the bird I saw last year is not relevant. It is completely relevant-same area, and probably the same bird.

I am still not convinced that it is intermediate. I fail to see any good reasons for why it is not a white heron. I am going to ignore a difference in gape length; it is such a pathetically small difference.

[BJC]

Below is a comparison of heads from the last photo posted by Somesbirder (upper), presumably from Petone, and one taken by me there on Wednesday (lower). To aid comparison, I have rotated both photos so that the bills are horizontal and adjusted the size so that the pupil to beak tip length is the same. Any other size adjustment is difficult without knowing absolute sizes. I have also avoided overlaying the images and providing a grid in order that viewers can make their own assessment.

It appears to me that, if the upper photo is from Petone, two different individuals are present at times in the estuary and the lower bird certainly matches illustrations of Intermediate Egrets on a range of Australian sites. That then brings back the original question I was trying to answer with this post - is the White Heron (sensu stricto) at Petone the same bird as that at Aotea Lagoon

[Neil Fitzgerald]

Are you trying to say that the Hutt estuary has had both a white heron and an intermediate egret in the area? I am still not convinced.

This is precisely the scenario where rarities are easily overlooked. It happens.

[Philip]

Im not saying that the Hutt estuary has had a white heron and a intermediate egret in the area. From the posting of BJC there is a white heron and intermediate egret in the Wellington area.

If you area going to use size alone to tell the difference between the 2 species, how will you tell the difference between a small white heron and a large intermediate egret? considering there size range.
Thats why we use gape length as one of the diagnostic features for seperating them out, plus the ones already mentioned above.

If you want a "pathetically small difference" to distinguish between 2 species (i would use the word subtle)
have alook at treecreeper Certhia familiaris and short-toed treecreeper Certhia brachydactyla.

Thats way bird watching is interesting sometimes it those differences that seperates them.
good look with it

[Jan]

The 2 most recent pics posted by BJC above illustrate perfectly the difference in head shape
between the 2 egrets. The angle made between the forehead and beak is great in the Great Egret,
[flat crown], and a lot less [rounded head] in the Intermediate.

The wrybilltours link posted shows a bird that to me seems the spitting image of Somesbirder's recent
Hutt estuary picture. I am not suggesting it is that individual bird of course.

[GrahameNZ]

"GrahameNZ, I do not see why the topic of the bird I saw last year is not relevant. It is completely relevant-same area, and probably the same bird. "

Yes you saw a W Heron there last year, neat.
They are lovely birds.
Last years observations are not relevant to this topic, we are having a friendly chat over a cuppa about what was seen in the last week or so.

"I am going to ignore a difference in gape length; it is such a pathetically small difference."
But it is a feature that those that have spent more time than you or I studying this family of birds use in their iding.

At the end of the day who knows until open minded birders have a look around the area.
And of course the possible rare bird could / will be well gone.

Nice couple of comparison pics BJC

[Neil Fitzgerald]

submit a UBR and let the comittee decide.

[Colin Miskelly]

Hi all

I am not going to wade in with an opinion here as I am too busy to read the whole string. BUT please note that egret ID is tricky. Many of you will have twitched the Milford Sound 'intermediate egret', but when the Records Appraisal Committee was asked to make a ruling on it, we ended up seeking Australian expert opinions on the identity of the bird (as we were split); the Australian experts were unanimous that it was a white heron.

A key point to remember is that intermediate egrets are almost always in freshwater habitats.

Cheers
Colin

[SomesBirder]

submit a UBR and let the comittee decide.

Who will do it? I am the first one to have reported it on this forum.