The franklins gull in Auckland has it seems managed to stir up quite a hornets nest.
There seems to be two quite distinct camps and unfortunately there is a developing us and them attitude as regards to overseas birders and locals.
I myself come from England and would like to think that all birders watching the same area ( be it foreign or local) could co-operate and help each other out with sightings, areas for specific species, lifts to places etc etc. It would be beneficial for everybody (and the birds) if more eyes were monitoring numbers, habitat change, etc but this really isn't the case.
I tend to bird alone because i have experienced this negative attitude first hand. I once asked a prominent Auckland birder for the best place to see Fernbird and was told first it was priviledged information and i would have to find them myself and then after much persuasion was finally directed straight into the middle of a housing estate! What a nice man he is! I'm not going to mention names and start a war but you know who you are.
if a bird is breeding, on private land,is susceptible to disturbance and so on, it is totally right to suppress details so as to have minimum impact on said species, although 2000 twitchers descending on some poor souls garden is not going to happen here, but i cannot understand the idea of not letting the info out on a rare bird so others can have the same thrill and enjoyment as the finder. (not to mention the fact of having the record verified) I am not suggesting the FG was suppressed, i dont believe it was, and the first email a week earlier stating possible franklins gull at kidds should have galvanised all of us into searching the area, which gets me back to my point that if we were all united and a single team we perhaps would have re-found it earlier and everyone would be happy.
Is there anyway we can stop this us and them attitude before it spirals out of control and everybody loses out. Gary
Foreign v local birders
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GarySetterfield
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:56 pm
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Rewi
Re: Foreign v local birders
It's really a lot brighter outlook than it appears, Gary.
This is just a 'contrast of cultures' situation really.
Kiwis are much more self-reliant, tougher and quieter about what they do. It's that 'Sir Ed' character that we all aspire-to and admire so much. In the UK, it's normal to make a lot more noise, to discuss, squabble even, but to resolve things that way for the common good in the future. To many kiwis, that's despicable and the antithesis of good character.
I'm not saying that either one is good or bad, but that's just how I see things.
For example, New Zealanders are proud of their independence and self-reliance. This is a quality born of the robust nature of early settlers to survive the shocking conditions alone and isolated from support. We do not complain that our road signs are all too small, missing, or hidden around bends where we can't see them. We find our way in any case, and are quietly satisfied that we have yet again survived the odds using our own 'bush skills'. In England the road signs are luminous, 60 feet high, and have 'three,two,one....' countdown markers before the intersections. No room for errors there, for sure. And if something isn't right, poms quickly phone the highways department at the council and tell them about it, a lot!!
The above examples typify our cultural diversity. A kiwi would think that the pom was a whining, wingeing girlie if he kept complaining that he'd been hit up the arse by the milk tanker whilst trying to stop in time for the badly signposted intersection. Likewise, the kiwi would be considered a total knobhead in England, because he didn't do his DUTY to his fellow motorists, and kept quiet about the sign that should have been fixed, and probably caused another accident later!
I think this is the same situation as the 'two camps' in birding.
Poms expect help and co-operation, and expect to share everything they find with all others, for everyone's benefit. They stand in the bush with binocs in one hand and the phone in the other, trying to help their fellow man! But kiwis might see that as soft and pansy. After all, a proper kiwi birder models himself of those roughtie-toughtie bushmen who used to go out deer shooting in the southern alps for months on end, and came home quietly, making little of their incredible endurance and survival skills. If asked, they might quietly mention that they'd shot 423 deer ( a world record), but would never volunteer this information.
Those values are reflected in bird reporting. The kiwi bloke will tough it out on his own. He won't blow his trumpet, but will quietly allow the news to filter out months later. THAT's what provides his MANA, not making lots of helpful noises for everyone else, who didn't ask for it. He probably feels that he put the work in to find the bird, and if you want some action, then you'd better get out there and find your own, not snivvel at him cos he didn't offer to share his feast with you.
Wierd, I know. And in reality, the kiwi way doesn't work. At all. But that's how it is, and so long as we understand each-other, we'll all enjoy the best we have to offer each other. Poms really DO want to contribute, and really DO have the best interests of their new countrymen at heart. We know that really. We're just too 'blokey' to let you see it. No sir, we're not pansies. We sleep in our Skellerups, and the sooner you lot start doing it...........
This is just a 'contrast of cultures' situation really.
Kiwis are much more self-reliant, tougher and quieter about what they do. It's that 'Sir Ed' character that we all aspire-to and admire so much. In the UK, it's normal to make a lot more noise, to discuss, squabble even, but to resolve things that way for the common good in the future. To many kiwis, that's despicable and the antithesis of good character.
I'm not saying that either one is good or bad, but that's just how I see things.
For example, New Zealanders are proud of their independence and self-reliance. This is a quality born of the robust nature of early settlers to survive the shocking conditions alone and isolated from support. We do not complain that our road signs are all too small, missing, or hidden around bends where we can't see them. We find our way in any case, and are quietly satisfied that we have yet again survived the odds using our own 'bush skills'. In England the road signs are luminous, 60 feet high, and have 'three,two,one....' countdown markers before the intersections. No room for errors there, for sure. And if something isn't right, poms quickly phone the highways department at the council and tell them about it, a lot!!
The above examples typify our cultural diversity. A kiwi would think that the pom was a whining, wingeing girlie if he kept complaining that he'd been hit up the arse by the milk tanker whilst trying to stop in time for the badly signposted intersection. Likewise, the kiwi would be considered a total knobhead in England, because he didn't do his DUTY to his fellow motorists, and kept quiet about the sign that should have been fixed, and probably caused another accident later!
I think this is the same situation as the 'two camps' in birding.
Poms expect help and co-operation, and expect to share everything they find with all others, for everyone's benefit. They stand in the bush with binocs in one hand and the phone in the other, trying to help their fellow man! But kiwis might see that as soft and pansy. After all, a proper kiwi birder models himself of those roughtie-toughtie bushmen who used to go out deer shooting in the southern alps for months on end, and came home quietly, making little of their incredible endurance and survival skills. If asked, they might quietly mention that they'd shot 423 deer ( a world record), but would never volunteer this information.
Those values are reflected in bird reporting. The kiwi bloke will tough it out on his own. He won't blow his trumpet, but will quietly allow the news to filter out months later. THAT's what provides his MANA, not making lots of helpful noises for everyone else, who didn't ask for it. He probably feels that he put the work in to find the bird, and if you want some action, then you'd better get out there and find your own, not snivvel at him cos he didn't offer to share his feast with you.
Wierd, I know. And in reality, the kiwi way doesn't work. At all. But that's how it is, and so long as we understand each-other, we'll all enjoy the best we have to offer each other. Poms really DO want to contribute, and really DO have the best interests of their new countrymen at heart. We know that really. We're just too 'blokey' to let you see it. No sir, we're not pansies. We sleep in our Skellerups, and the sooner you lot start doing it...........
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GarySetterfield
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:56 pm
Re: Foreign v local birders
whoa, slow down big fella! 
Mana, skellerups 
Deer shooting and hit up the arse with milk tankers! Are you trying to say that deep down you like us really and you'd tell me the best place for fernbird?
Good on yer Rewi, what a great response
Mana, skellerups Deer shooting and hit up the arse with milk tankers! Are you trying to say that deep down you like us really and you'd tell me the best place for fernbird? Good on yer Rewi, what a great response
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Suzi
- Posts: 238
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:47 am
- Location: Upper Waiwera
- Contact:
Re: Foreign v local birders
Nice bit of romanticised, chauvanistic, myth-making Rewi !
I disagree with you because NZers - men AND women - who bird-watch ARE usually good at sharing bird-spotting information. They've been doing it via the Birding-NZ email list for years, and via other birding networks, such as meetings of local OSNZ branches and informal networks, for longer.
It appears that some more recent arrivals are getting paranoid that they are missing out on hearing about birds that haven't arrived yet, and blaming the resident birders for it. They need to relax and go birding more !
Kia ora, Suzi
I disagree with you because NZers - men AND women - who bird-watch ARE usually good at sharing bird-spotting information. They've been doing it via the Birding-NZ email list for years, and via other birding networks, such as meetings of local OSNZ branches and informal networks, for longer.
It appears that some more recent arrivals are getting paranoid that they are missing out on hearing about birds that haven't arrived yet, and blaming the resident birders for it. They need to relax and go birding more !
Kia ora, Suzi
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Rewi
Re: Foreign v local birders
Thank you for the comments Suzi. I enjoy your postings very much too.Suzi wrote:Nice bit of romanticised, chauvanistic, myth-making Rewi !
chau·vin·istic: Demonstrating militant devotion to and glorification of one's country; fanatical patriotism.
I had to check the dictionary before I fully understood you. I'm honoured and humbled.
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Rewi
Re: Foreign v local birders
Yep, POLLEN ISLAND, AUCKLAND CITY. Literally dozens of them, within a couple of hundred metres of the NW Motorway intersection at Rosebank Road. You're more than welcome mate.GarySetterfield wrote:whoa, slow down big fella!
Good on yer Rewi, what a great response